Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts

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From: Linus Torvalds
Date: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 - 1:09 pm

On Wed, 15 Nov 2006, Michael K. Edwards wrote:

I'm saying that even if you _never_ end up using "git fetch" ever again 
(because in practice you always want to do a "fetch + merge == pull"), 
people who teach others the concepts and usage of git should probably 
start by talking about "git fetch".

Then, when the user says (and he obviously will say this) "but I don't 
want to just fetch the other persons work into some local branch, I want 
to actually get it into _my_ branch", you say "Ahhah!" and talk about how 
"pull" is a shorthand for first fetching and then merging the result into 
the current branch.

See? Once you explain "fetch" to somebody, I can pretty much guarantee 
that they'll explain "pull" to themselves without you having to even work 
at it. And then they'll probably happily use "pull" ever after, and never 
worry about fetch, but now they'll understand the _concepts_.

It's only if you start the other way around that "pull" vs "fetch" vs 
"push" become confusing. If you _start_ by explaining branches (and you 
might use "gitk --all" on a small project as a visualization tool), 
suddenly the concepts aren't all that complicated.

Sure, then you have to remember two words ("pull" vs "fetch"), but I'm 
pretty sure that the thing that makes people confused is not the words 
themselves, but their lack of understanding of the concepts behind them.

		Linus
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Messages in current thread:
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Jakub Narebski, (Tue Nov 14, 2:30 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Tue Nov 14, 2:34 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Tue Nov 14, 3:56 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Tue Nov 14, 6:48 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Tue Nov 14, 7:10 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Tue Nov 14, 7:27 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Tue Nov 14, 9:20 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Tue Nov 14, 9:58 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 11:03 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 11:43 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Shawn Pearce, (Wed Nov 15, 11:49 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Andy Parkins, (Wed Nov 15, 11:58 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Marko Macek, (Wed Nov 15, 12:05 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 12:18 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 12:32 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Wed Nov 15, 12:39 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 1:09 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Petr Baudis, (Wed Nov 15, 1:12 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 1:21 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 1:26 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 1:40 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 1:41 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 1:50 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Wed Nov 15, 2:08 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 2:18 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 2:31 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 2:40 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 2:45 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 2:52 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 2:59 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Shawn Pearce, (Wed Nov 15, 3:07 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Sean, (Wed Nov 15, 3:28 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Wed Nov 15, 3:52 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Shawn Pearce, (Wed Nov 15, 4:02 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Sean, (Wed Nov 15, 4:07 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 4:33 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 5:08 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Theodore Tso, (Wed Nov 15, 6:14 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Wed Nov 15, 6:20 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 7:03 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Wed Nov 15, 7:30 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Wed Nov 15, 8:02 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 8:07 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Wed Nov 15, 8:12 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 8:27 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 8:35 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Nicolas Pitre, (Wed Nov 15, 8:43 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 9:07 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Wed Nov 15, 9:21 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Theodore Tso, (Wed Nov 15, 9:26 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Petr Baudis, (Wed Nov 15, 9:30 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Marko Macek, (Wed Nov 15, 11:07 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 3:45 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 4:11 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Alexandre Julliard, (Thu Nov 16, 4:34 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Andreas Ericsson, (Thu Nov 16, 4:35 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 4:47 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Andreas Ericsson, (Thu Nov 16, 4:50 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 6:03 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 6:11 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Petr Baudis, (Thu Nov 16, 7:01 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Alexandre Julliard, (Thu Nov 16, 8:48 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Theodore Tso, (Thu Nov 16, 9:07 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 9:23 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 9:30 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Thu Nov 16, 9:37 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 9:42 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Theodore Tso, (Thu Nov 16, 9:49 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Thu Nov 16, 10:01 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 10:17 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 10:30 am)
multi-project repos (was Re: Cleaning up git user-interfac ..., Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 10:40 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Sean, (Thu Nov 16, 10:44 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Thu Nov 16, 10:57 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 10:57 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Thu Nov 16, 11:13 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Thu Nov 16, 11:23 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 11:27 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 11:28 am)
Re: multi-project repos, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 11:33 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 12:47 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 12:53 pm)
Re: multi-project repos (was Re: Cleaning up git user-inte ..., Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Nov 16, 3:21 pm)
Re: multi-project repos, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 3:44 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Nov 16, 4:00 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 4:22 pm)
Re: multi-project repos (was Re: Cleaning up git user-inte ..., Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Nov 16, 4:36 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 5:05 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Thu Nov 16, 5:13 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 5:27 pm)
Re: multi-project repos, Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Nov 16, 5:29 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Petr Baudis, (Thu Nov 16, 5:35 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Thu Nov 16, 5:37 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Linus Torvalds, (Thu Nov 16, 5:39 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Han-Wen Nienhuys, (Thu Nov 16, 5:52 pm)
Re: multi-project repos (was Re: Cleaning up git user-inte ..., Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Nov 16, 6:22 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Thu Nov 16, 6:25 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Thu Nov 16, 6:34 pm)
Re: multi-project repos (was Re: Cleaning up git user-inte ..., Johannes Schindelin, (Thu Nov 16, 7:16 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Thu Nov 16, 11:42 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Nov 17, 12:32 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Nov 17, 1:41 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Carl Worth, (Fri Nov 17, 2:18 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Johannes Schindelin, (Fri Nov 17, 3:11 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Nov 17, 4:29 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Nov 17, 4:41 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Karl , (Fri Nov 17, 5:20 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Shawn Pearce, (Fri Nov 17, 9:58 am)
Re: multi-project repos, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Nov 17, 10:39 am)
Re: multi-project repos, Junio C Hamano, (Fri Nov 17, 1:24 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Michael K. Edwards, (Fri Nov 17, 6:24 pm)
Re: multi-project repos, Shawn Pearce, (Fri Nov 17, 11:02 pm)
Re: multi-project repos, Junio C Hamano, (Sat Nov 18, 12:31 am)
Re: multi-project repos, Shawn Pearce, (Sat Nov 18, 12:45 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts , Horst H. von Brand, (Mon Nov 20, 12:44 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Shawn Pearce, (Mon Nov 20, 12:46 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts, Jerome Lovy, (Tue Nov 21, 6:25 am)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts , Sanjoy Mahajan, (Wed Nov 22, 4:21 pm)
Re: Cleaning up git user-interface warts , Horst H. von Brand, (Wed Nov 22, 7:52 pm)