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Hash: SHA1Lets say I have a string of n bits that needs to be filled by repeatedly
applying some function on k strings of m bits where |m|<|n|. Assuming
that m(i) is a random string and n needs to also be random what is the
best way to do this. Note it is possible that k*|m|>|n|. What I have
been thinking so far is:~ Let m' be the average length of m // this is pre-computable
~ Let n be all 0's~ for i=0 --> k
~ pos=m'*i~ xor string k[i] onto n starting at pos // wrap around if needed
~ While this is simple I wonder if it can be attacked (determine what
k[i]) if k*|m|>|n| (it is trivial to attack if k*|m|<=|n|). Also is
there some way to make attacking hard if k*|m|<=|n|?~ Ideas?
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dear mr. fromme ---
i thank you for your thoughts and the time you took to "pen" them.
my thesis was in regard to the documentation_set for sh(1).
what i said about my "killer_app"
was an effort to describe my motivation for examining that set.
while it was not my intention to
seek advice regarding the development of my prototype,
i appreciate your efforts, on my behalf, and will respond to them,
in addition to your thesis_related comments.hear !
oddly enough, i thought of this approach first [ great minds think alike ].
i rejected it because of the work involved to create work_arounds;i already did the filter thing:
foo=`echo FreeBSD | right_all_but_n 4 | left_n 3`
or
foo=`echo FreeBSD | right 3`
where "left_n", "right_n", "left_all_but_n" and "right_all_but_n" are
compiled, c_language filters, which take the character_count as an argument.
i may end_up using it, for now, because it works and it is "intuitively obvious".
long_term, however, i will reject it, because it forks a child.additionally, the use of dd(1), especially for my target user_base,
violates a corollary of my stated commandment,
which i did not state originally, but, which i will state here:thou shalt not be clever.
some folks see commandments as "negative rights".
a "positive rights" variant would be:thou shalt be intuitively_obvious to even the most dis_interested reader;
see note [c].
"abuse", to me, is a subjective term, because
sh(1) "kinda is" and "kinda isn't" a programming language.
it has an intended purpose, but, it will do many other things, as well.when i discovered python, about eight or nine years ago, i got really excited.
it would have been my first choice, for many reasons, but,
i was forced to reject it because it violates another commandment:thou shalt not preclude the use of arbitrary white_space between tokens.
my writing_style violates ...
Not really. What it says is that the man page is not a complete
*specification*. That is not the same thing as being incomplete as a
user manual. When appropriate information is noticed to be missing, it
does get added (as you can confirm from looking at the checkin log for
sh.1).
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Lowell Gilbert <freebsd-chat-local@be-well.ilk.org> wrote:
> spellberg_robert <emailrob@emailrob.com> writes:
>
> > dear mr. fromme ---
>
> > > > man_pages need to be, at least, "substantially_complete".
> > >
> > > I agree that the sh(1) manual page should be complete,
> > > and I think it is indeed complete. Do you think some
> > > piece of reference information is missing?
> >
> > ah_ha, you have arrived at my thesis.
> >
> > the man_page author states that it is not complete, in the first paragraph.
>
> Not really. What it says is that the man page is not a complete
> *specification*. That is not the same thing as being incomplete as a
> user manual. When appropriate information is noticed to be missing, it
> does get added (as you can confirm from looking at the checkin log for
> sh.1).Right. In particular, a complete specification should include
a formal grammar of the language accepted by the shell. This
is missing from the manual page, but it isn't really necessary
for normal use of the shell.On the other hand, I do have to agree with Robert that some
parts of the man page are very terse, sometimes up to the
point that you actually have to try things out (or examine
the source) in order to find out how something works. For
example, the man page fails to mention which operators are
supported in arithmetic expressions, and how they evaluate
their arguments, exactly. (I noticed this just today.)Certainly, if someone writes up a paragraph for inclusion in
the manual page, it will be gratefully accepted and comitted
if appropriate.Best regards
Oliver--
Oliver Fromme, secnetix GmbH & Co. KG, Marktplatz 29, 85567 Grafing b. M.
Handelsregister: Registergericht Muenchen, HRA 74606, Geschäftsfuehrung:
secnetix Verwaltungsgesellsch. mbH, Handelsregister: Registergericht Mün-
chen, HRB 125758, Geschäfts...
Check out SHA-related RFC's and especially the reading referenced
(both within IETF and outside) in them.
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So you want us to do your homework...?
--
Martin Tournoij
carpetsmoker@rwxrwxrwx.net
http://www.daemonforums.orgInformation is the inverse of entropy.
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1Martin Tournoij wrote:
| On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 04:10:01PM -0400, Aryeh M. Friedman wrote:
|> Lets say I have a string of n bits that needs to be filled by repeatedly
|> applying some function on k strings of m bits where |m|<|n|. Assuming
|> that m(i) is a random string and n needs to also be random what is
the best
|> way to do this. Note it is possible that k*|m|>|n|. What I have been
|> thinking so far is:
|>
|> ~ Let m' be the average length of m // this is pre-computable
|> ~ Let n be all 0's
|>
|> ~ for i=0 --> k
|> ~ pos=m'*i
|>
|> ~ xor string k[i] onto n starting at pos // wrap around if needed
|>
|> ~ While this is simple I wonder if it can be attacked (determine what
|> k[i]) if k*|m|>|n| (it is trivial to attack if k*|m|<=|n|). Also is
there
|> some way to make attacking hard if k*|m|<=|n|?
|>
|> ~ Ideas?
|
| So you want us to do your homework...?
|
If this was homework I would just use the above and take the b or what
ever I would get on it but I need this for something else where any
attack is not good.
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